Rasmus Haslund: Hi all!
Satish Singh: hello
Rasmus Haslund: Excited to hear more about DR6000!
Satish Singh: The chat will begin shortly Rasmus, and I am sure you will learn lots
Rasmus Haslund: Hey Tom
Dell TechCenter: Hey Guys!
Dell TechCenter: Welcome to the pre-party :)
hypervfan: Hi Rasmus
gminks: I'm on another call so bbiab. :)
Dennis Smith: Hi Gina!
Dennis Smith: Hey Guys...going to go ahead and open the chat room up
Marius Sandbu 2: yay!
Dennis Smith: We will be getting started at 3, so feel free to chat it up unitl then :)
Marius Sandbu 2: Busy day, headed straight from the Synergy keynote to this :)
Dennis Smith: While we're waiting, invite all your friends :)
Dennis Smith: ahh, how is the conf so far
Dennis Smith: Synergy and EMCWorld both going on
Marius Sandbu 2: actually im home in Norway and enjoying the rain, watched the live stream :)
Satish Singh: Rain is a luxury in Texas
Dennis Smith: haha, not a bad way to do it
hypervfan: We would have been happy to send over some of the rain we got earlier this year. Got more than enough :)
Graham: Just Wanted to say.
Dennis Smith: Nothing wrong with bacon :)
Graham: We got too much dang snow here.
Graham: Absolutely nothing
Marius Sandbu 2: Now is there any place where these techchats are announced ? Just notice them on Twitter, would like a website to see all techchats that are planned ahead
Dennis Smith: Our Event calendar here: http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/c/1.aspx
Satish Singh: Marius, I heard the Norwegian army is using Oculus Rift's for training
Marius Sandbu 2: Jupp
Marius Sandbu 2: is more at a beta stage
Marius Sandbu 2: using it when driving around in a tank to the drivers get a better overview outside
Satish Singh: :)
Satish Singh: the future is now
Dennis Smith: Did you see the Real life Lag using the Oculus Rift's?
Dennis Smith: hillarioous
Dennis Smith: http://mashable.com/2014/04/29/ad-oculus-rift-lag/
Satish Singh: lag is meaningless, when you're in a tank
Satish Singh: Welcome everybody, we'll be starting in just a few minutes
Didier Van Hoye: evening all
Dennis Smith: Hi Didier
hypervfan: Hi Didier
Satish Singh: Hello Didier
Didier Van Hoye: hello
Satish Singh: wow, Google Now's parking location card is... strangely stalkerish
Satish Singh: I've been walking all day and it still knows my car is sitting in the parking lot
Dennis Smith: lol
Satish Singh: We're going to give everyone about 5 more minutes to join before starting
Dennis Smith: Google knows everything
Graham: My FitBit knows I've been sitting on my a$$ all day... and it's unhappy
Dennis Smith: ^hahaha
Satish Singh: Your SitBit you mean?
Graham: lol.. more like it
Dennis Smith: They should work in a shock aspect to the fitbit...you know, a little motivation :)
Graham: It's in my pocket all day... I'd hate to think what it's going to shock... *ouchies*
gminks: sitbit lolz
gminks: I washed my fitbit. that was a bad idea.
Satish Singh: Is it is not waterproof?
Graham: I am waiting for mine to hit the washer
Satish Singh: Ok, I think we can get started
Satish Singh: Hello and welcome all, today we are going to be talking about new de-dupe and compression disk based backup appliances, namely the DR6000. This appliance can complement existing backup environments, reducing RPO/RTO’s, costs, power, cooling, and data center footprint.
Satish Singh: To talk about the product, we have Ward Wolfram (technical marketing), Frank Sun, Development Engineer), and Kay Benaroch (DR Product Marketing Manager) talking to us about this exciting new product.
Ward Wolfram: Hello Team... nice to be able to spend time with you today.
Frank Sun: Hi everybody.
Ward Wolfram: The DR is a backup to disk target appliance that utilizes Ocarina dedup and compression to optimize capacity for disk based backups.
Kay_Benaroch: Hi everybody - we're excited about our enterprise class DR6000 backup appliance
Ward Wolfram: The DR6000 steps further into the Enterprise space providing 180TB of post raid usable capacity resulting in > 2PB of logical spaced depending on your data set.
Ward Wolfram: Has anyone heard about the DR6000 yet? Do you have specific questions you would like to ask?
Graham: How does it appear on the network? As disk space, or as a VTL?
Satish Singh: Link to product page: http://software.dell.com/products/dr4100-disk-backup-appliance/
Didier Van Hoye: post raid as in "storage pool" like behaviour?
Ward Wolfram: It appears as a share to the server as the DR supports CIFS/NFS
Tom: What is the difference in the DR4100 and DR6000 aside from capacity?
Ward Wolfram: It also supports OST and RDA.
Gerry Forde: Hi All
Ward Wolfram: New to the DR6000 only are Rapid NFS and Rapid CIFS accelerators
Tom: That's sounds interesting, what is Rapid *?
Ward Wolfram: Tom - Rapid CIFS and Rapid NFS accelerators ... they work with non RDA clients and can now support source based deduplication.
Marius Sandbu 2: This is the first time I've heard about the DR6000, do you have a list of certified backup vendors?
Tom: does it require an agent on the CIFS/NFS server?
Kay_Benaroch: The list of certified vendors for the DR Series can be found in the DR Series spec sheet which is on our landing page under Resources
Leon Hart: what benefit would I get over the Data Domain 670 that I have in production, now?
gminks: Here is the landing page>>>>> http://software.dell.com/products/dr4100-disk-backup-appliance/
Ward Wolfram: The power of the DR6000 resources are enhanced too. With RDA, OST and Rapid CIFS,NFS, the DR6000 achieved up to 22TB / hr ingest. The DR4100 with RDA is measured at 7.5 TB/hr ingest. Thus, performance is a key component too.
Dan Barr: Do those accelerators go on the end system client (like the server being backed up), or on something like the media agent?
Frank Sun: yes for RapidCIFS/RapidNFS we need to install drivers onto the backup servers or client machines.
Kay_Benaroch: The benefits over DD670 are we don't charge for Replication or accelerators like OST, RDA or Rapid NFS/Rapid CIFS; our support license is also 3 years
Graham: So an R620 loaded with MD1200s and some software? :)
Ward Wolfram: The Rapid CIFS/NFS are plugins that are installed in the Linux or Windows server. They run in the back ground, accelerating the CIFS/NFS connection to the DR6000.
Graham: The capacity looks pretty good tho
Frank Sun: the hardware platform for DR6000 is R720xd
Graham: whats the rough de-dupe speed?
Graham: and the un-dupe speed when we have to restore?
Didier Van Hoye: Interesting I now use R710 with MD3600/MD1200 for backup target. 10GBps & FC
Ward Wolfram: DR6000 is based upon a PE R720XD server. We utilize a WAM (Write acceleration card) - acts like cache.... Ocarian is running in the DR OS.
Matt: Has the DR6000 been tested with various backup softwares like Backup Exec, Veeam...
Graham: We're using an R710 with some MD1200s and MD1000s for out backup targets... 10G iSCSI at the moment
Marius Sandbu 2: Matt: They are under supported backup vendors on the product page
Ward Wolfram: restore 3-5TB/hr
Tom: So the Rapid CIFS/NFS plugins are installed on the NFS/CIFS server, not on the client system---or both places?
Ward Wolfram: DR6000 offers copper and optical 10Gb interconnects with 1Gb options and combinations too.
Kay_Benaroch: The DR Series is certified with Veeam, Symantec NetBackup and Backup Exec, EMC Networker, Tivoli Storage Manager, CA ArcServer, Oracle RMAN, HP Data Protector, Bridgehead, Amanda, CommVault Simpana, Dell NetVault Backup and vRanger; it also supports archiving from Dell AppAssure
Didier Van Hoye: under what conditions? Type of backups/restores / What source staorage/ how many in parallel etc?
Dan Barr: Is there a scale-out capability to go beyond the capacity of one box? Does dedupe span globally across multiple DR6000 boxes?
Frank Sun: the appliance itself can get ingest speed of up to 22TB/hr, given there is no other bottleneck along the datapath. We achieved this performance number by running multiple clients backing up to DR6000 simultaneously. 22TB/hr is roughly 6GB/sec.
Ward Wolfram: Tom - plugins installed only on the client. 2 min install. Download the plugin from the DR6000 GUI... run install utility.. .you are done and CIFS or NFS backups can significantly be accelerated...
Frank Sun: the Rapid CIFS/NFS plugins are installed on both the media servers and the clients, if you would like to get client-direct backup to DR6000
Graham: Have to request a quote from sales? Sheesh... Why not list the prices on the webstite.
Ward Wolfram: Good catch Frank... yes... can be installed on either or both media server and clients.
Kay_Benaroch: The pricing is subject to discounts applied by the sales team and/or partner - Dell doesn't list our street pricing on our web site
Frank Sun: currently dedupe doesn't go beyond one DR6000 appliance.
Graham: All I'd want is list price... I know what discounts we can get from our sales people
Kay_Benaroch: minimum pricing for DR6000 9TB is $59,000 - that's list price though
Tom: How does the archive from AppAssure work and why is only archiving supported?
Dan Barr: "currently" huh? :)
Ward Wolfram: Rapid NFS and Rapid CIFS today support CIFS and NFS with 1)Simpana 2)Networker and 3)TSM More supported applications added each quarter, etc.
Frank Sun: yes, our product team and developement team has plan for real global dedupe across multiple appliances, but I don't have a timeline for that as of now.
Dan Barr: Frank, is that global dedupe planned to back-port to DR6000 appliances shipped prior to that feature's availability?
Leon Hart: what is included in the support license? any limits to how many clients or media servers? any "phone home" features?
Tom: Can you have DR4100 and DR6000 working in the same environment, together?
gminks: wow look back in and there is an appassure question....
Kay_Benaroch: archiving with AppAssure core to DR lets the AA core send a data set that is beyond the retention policy to the DR as a target backup repository; multiple AA cores can send their archives to the DR and the DR deduplication will examine the data at ingest and remove any redundant data blocks before storing it on disk
Ward Wolfram: Didier - DR6000 can support 64 NFS streams and 64 NFS streams at the same time.
Kay_Benaroch: yes DR4100 and DR6000 can work together in the same environment
Graham: Is ingest de-dupe done in real time, or is it cached and done later?
Didier Van Hoye: that would indeed get you some throughput
Ward Wolfram: recommended limit to DR in concurrent or parallel backup processing is 128 streams or backups at the same time...
Ward Wolfram: Graham - DR series including the 6000 is variable size, sliding window, in-line deduplication. NOT post process.
Frank Sun: answer to Didier Van Hoye question on performance numbers: for ingest speed, we had 12 clients running backup jobs to DR6000 with 10Gbps links, on Rapid CIFS/NFS. The data set was around 90% deduped data, which is typical seen in real world.
Leon Hart: any replication between devices; like a DR6000 replicting to another DR6000?
Didier Van Hoye: thx
Frank Sun: DR4100/DR6000 can work just fine in same backup solution, as long as they are on same firmware level. They can replicate data between each other on either direction no problem.
Ward Wolfram: Leon - yes! Deduplication is alwasy included in the solution. Replication supports up toe 64 locations for the DR6000.
Didier Van Hoye: 90% is very very good ...I must say, what was the pay load? Virtual Machines?
Tom: Why is AppAssure limited to archive data to DR series?
Frank Sun: we had mixed data types, including Oracle DBs, SQL DBs, exchanges DBs, user home directories, engineering data. and yes VMs for sure.
Kay_Benaroch: Also new on the DR SEries with OS 3.0 is support for Symantec OST Virtual Synthetic Backups and a Global Management console so uperators can monitor/manage up to 64 DR appliances
Ward Wolfram: Tom - Today, AA does not support 'blocks' of data as AA requires.
Ward Wolfram: Idea is to put Ocarina engin in AA, then the DR and AA will and can work together...
hypervfan: @Ward, that answered what I was about to ask :)
Tom: i see, you mean DR does not support blocks ;)
Ward Wolfram: Tom - DR is file level... it takes streams and breaks them up into variable chunks for dedup. AppAssure does not send file level streams.
Kay_Benaroch: Leon: here's what's included in support: Installation and Hardware Support Services optionsRIS (Remote Installation Services)3 year NBD (Next Business Day) ProSupport is the minimum service level provided3 year ProSupport MC (Mission Critical) 4 hour service optionEDT (Enterprise Deployment Team) services require a custom bidAdditional 4th and 5th year support available at Point of SaleChannel Partner SKUs for Installation are also available
Tom: oh, ok. gotcha
gminks: Tom - are u a current appassure customer?
Leon Hart: thanks, Kay
Tom: no, i have seen info so was wondering why only archive info
hypervfan: How is the Ocarina engine compared to the engine in AA today?
Frank Sun: there is no limit on how many clients can be connected to DR6000, but we do have limit on concurrent connected clients. we can have up to 64 CIFS connections, and up to 64 NFS connections, and up to 512 RDA connections. and a limit of up to 64 replication sessions per appliance.
Ward Wolfram: Tom -AA archive allows to send a group of images using CIFS/NFS... DR as been tested and approved to support the AA feature providing benefit and optimization... especially if there are many recovery points being sent.
Ward Wolfram: hyperfan - different deduplication algorithms. DR utilizes Ocarina dedup and compressino algorithms.
Satish Singh: Does the DR6000 work with all backup software? Or is it limited to the ones mentioned above?
Frank Sun: the ones listed above were the ones we have done testing with. It doesn't mean that other backup software won't work.
Frank Sun: most likely, a backup software using CIFS/NFS writing data to DR6000 will just work fine.
hypervfan: @Ward, were more thinking about how effective they are compared to each other
gminks: ah ok gotcha. :)
Ward Wolfram: Team - DR can grow in capacity non-disruptively. Add and expansion shelf and the DR takes advantage of this new capacity, with no storage management needed. Very slick.
gminks: was wondering if you had specific archive requirements w a current appassure set up
Frank Sun: And we are qualifying more backup software with future releases.
Kay_Benaroch: AppAssure deduplication is content aware block level dedupe; DR is file-based in-line variable block deduplication; customers are seeing up to 80-90% reduction in backup storage using DR systems; we generally say about a 15:1 comparison between original data and deduped data - but of course if varies depending upon the data type
Ward Wolfram: Hyperfan - pretty close with apples to applies comparison. Now, withvery large dedup capacities, the Ocarina/DR wins. For Flexability, the DR wins as it provides support'Globally'with source based dedup. Many options here.
Tom: are there plans for models larger than DR6000?
Ward Wolfram: Tom - DR team is looking at many options... for different needs... small and larger environments
Frank Sun: Yes we have plan to get larger capacity models. But I don't have too much in detail as of now.
Ward Wolfram: Just like the DR4100. the DR6000 is all inclusive software licensing. All the features we have spoke about today... are included. The DR is licensed by capacity only.
Tom: makes sense, thNKS
Ward Wolfram: New features that come out in the next quarter, a DR customer is entitled too.... download and install the new DR OS to gain immediate access to these features...
Satish Singh: Linking to the product page again in case anyone missed it: http://software.dell.com/products/dr4100-disk-backup-appliance/
Ward Wolfram: 3 year support is inculded with the DR solution. This is much greater than many of the other deduplication appliances that only provide 1 year support.
Satish Singh: Also: http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/dell-software-dr4100-disk-backup-appliance/pd
Kay_Benaroch: We will be publishing a whitepaper on the results of our DR6000 testing; the whitepaper will be from ESG who has verified our test results with our engineering team in India
Dan Barr: Is there a tape-out or some other cold archiving capability for really deep archive/retention?
Didier Van Hoye: What kind of disk & number of them did you have during testing, controller H800?
Ward Wolfram: Dan - currently there is not a tape out directly provided by the DR. Today, customers use backup software to control disk/tape policies.
Dan Barr: OK, so have the backup SW pull the data back off the DR and send it to tape itself, gotcha
Patrick: Maybe I missed it but: The DR storage capacity, is it kind of pooled and deduped across all attached disks? I remember something about volumes and dedupe only on a per volume basis? e.g. for multi tenancy (never used a DR so far)
Ward Wolfram: Didier - the ESG whitepaper testing used 18TB 7.2 disks... with 4 expansion shelves.
Frank Sun: tape-out or D2D2T would be controlled by the backup server with job management. DR6000 will be managed by the backup software as just a disk device with CIFS/NFS/RDS interfaces. We have quite some customers running tape-out successfully.
Ward Wolfram: Patrock - yes.... you create logical entities called conainers that use the entire pool of disk capacity.
Ward Wolfram: dedup is global across ALL containers....
Patrick: cool, then the info I got some days ago are simply wrong :) Thanks
Dan Barr: So a container is more of an access and quota mapping than physical capacity carving?
Frank Sun: To Patrick: DR Series has global deduped across all its configured disks. You can configure multiple containers on a single DR unit, but they are just logical holders of data --- they share the same single dedupe pool.
Ward Wolfram: Patrick - no raid groups or storage stuff to manage or configure...
Frank Sun: yes Dan you are correct on that. :)
Dan Barr: Can you oversubscribe?
Ward Wolfram: Dan - yes,... Also, replication is configured at the container level. If you want 2 different replication schedules... create 2 different containers.
Frank Sun: We plan to have multi-tenancy feature in upcoming 3.5 release, so people will have more flexibility managing data.
Dan Barr: Ward - ah nice, replication granularity is awesome
Frank Sun: oversubscribe is also depending on the backup software. We recommend you turn off free space verification from backup software side, so it won't report "no enough free space" when you have 5TB to backup and DR6000 only has 4TB free space, but you know the whole data set will take only 400GB of the dedupe storage space.
Ward Wolfram: Dan - With using NetVault and the DR, we can utilize RDA (Rapid Data Access). This allows one to set replication policies all within the NetVault GUI. Then NetVault will log, track and catalog all replication actions. Dont even have to open up in the DR gui to configure anything.
Frank Sun: in running DR6000 replication, we do recommend you configure multiple containers if possible, so replication for each container will take relatively less time to complete, versus a single big container that will take much longer to get replication insync.
classyclone: I love cake
Ward Wolfram: Are any of you using a deduplication and compressino appliance today?... if so, what are you using?
Frank Sun: especially for WAN replications, multiple containers will help to get all in sync more easily.
Satish Singh: All, we have about 5 minutes left in the chat, are there any other questions? Frank, Ward, Kay, do you have any parting thoughts?
Gerry Forde: just setting up two dr4100 and veeam at present testing going really well
Dan Barr: Ward - not using a dedupe appliance today, just a large ZFS-based NFS/SMB target
Ward Wolfram: Gerry - Nice!....
Didier Van Hoye: What throughput are you getting Gerry
Kay_Benaroch: Gerry: that's great - let us know how you like the systems; we'd love to stay in touch and possibly consider a Dell case study on your installation
Ward Wolfram: Dan - ahhh yes....
Dan Barr: But that's at 240TB today and still growing, and we've calculated that to get a full quarter on disk we need 1PB
Gerry Forde: didier using 10gb intel nics and force 10 4820t switch cant get to max out the bandwidth love to chat to of line about it
Frank Sun: I am from engineering side of the product, and I mainly work with customers directly on a post-sales basis. We have a large intall base already and almost all customer feedback is very positive --- easy to set up and manage, very good performance and low overall cost.
Didier Van Hoye: can do gerry
Didier Van Hoye: we find that the source/target red/write speed is the biggest hurdle
Didier Van Hoye: target we get around by doing simultanious backups
Gerry Forde: yes thats what I am seeing
Didier Van Hoye: target, well we have 2 of them
Ward Wolfram: We are real excited about he launch of the DR6000. Lots of interest this past week to meet both capacity and performance needs that the DR4100 might have not directly met. The DR is beating out other deduplication and compression appliances in both cost and support. It is extremely reliable and solid. Many additional features to be added this year.
Didier Van Hoye: combiene that and we do pretty well
Satish Singh: before we wrap up, I wanted to thank everyone for their participation and to Kay, Ward, and Frank for the chat
gminks: ^5 y'all!
Satish Singh: You can participate and continue the conversation at: Our page is http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/
Tom: Thanks all
Frank Sun: If you have more to share with us and/or items to further discuss, please feel free to contact us. My email is firstname.lastname@example.org. We can discuss anything on the technical side no problem.
Dan Barr: Thanks!
Marius Sandbu 2: Thanks!
Ward Wolfram: Thank you for your questions - email@example.com
Didier Van Hoye: thx for the chat guys
Didier Van Hoye: appreciate it
Gerry Forde: thanks guys
hypervfan: Thanks for good info
Satish Singh: You can also reach them at: Ward_Wolfram@dell.com, Frank_Sun@dell.com, Kay.Benaroch@software.dell.com
Kay_Benaroch: if you have any marketing or sales questions contact me at Kay.Benaroch@software.dell.com
Satish Singh: Thank you very much everyone, this has been a great discussion.
Dan Barr: Can this chat log be saved out when the meeting ends? My colleague had to leave early but would be interested in the rest of the discussion
Satish Singh: Yes, the chat will be viewable at the techcenter website
Satish Singh: Under TechChats
Dan Barr: Great, thanks
Satish Singh: Anytime Dan, thank you for joining the conversation