Dennis Smith       Hey Everyone!
Dennis Smith Thanks for joining us today for a discussion on Fluid Cache
Dennis Smith we'll give it a few minutes for everyone else to join
Kong Yang 2 Hello everyone!
Sarah Vela Hey Kong!
Dell-Peter T Hello Kong 1 and Kong 2
hypervfan Hi Kong
Dell-Peter T Hi Tom
TomH Hello
hypervfan Hi Peter
Kong Yang 2 I cloned myself
Dennis Smith Whoa....that's a lot of Kongs
Tom Hello all
Dennis Smith Hi Tom
Kong Yang 2 Hello Sarah :-)
MichaelD Greetings
Kong Yang 2 Hey PT!
Dell-Peter T Hi Michael Davis
Sarah Vela Nice crowd today :)
virtualTodd Howdy!
Dell-Peter T the crowd is crowded today!
Miguel Pulido Hi!
erson hi all
erson sure is great turnout today
Dennis Smith Hi Ersone
Dennis Smith Erson
Dennis Smith sorry :)
hypervfan Hi erson
Lance Boley Welcome everyone
Dennis Smith Before we get started, want to make sure you know there is still time to apply to be a Dell TechCenter RockStar!
Dennis Smith http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/b/techcenter/archive/2013/02/18/it-pro-star-search-apply-now-to-be-a-2013-dell-techcenter-rockstar.aspx
Lance Boley Today's topic is Fluid Cache DAS
Khaled Omar Hi all
Dell-Peter T yes, apply to be a Rockstar before March 8th :)
Lance Boley We have some experts online to talk with and answer your questions.
Dennis Smith Hi Khaled
JBarnhart-Dell Fluid Cache for DAS 1.0 to be more exact
Khaled Omar i hope to have a good information about Fluid Cache DAS
Khaled Omar hi Dennis
Lance Boley I am going to turn things over to Kishore
Lance Boley Thanks for the correct JBarnhart ...
Kishore Gagrani Thanks you , Lance
JBarnhart-Dell :)
Kishore Gagrani Hi Everyone, my name is Kishore Gagrani, Product Manager for Fluid Cache
Kishore Gagrani we are excited to announce that today we are launching Fluid Cache for DAS
Kishore Gagrani Fluid Cache is a server-based application acceleration technology that combines Dell's Fluid Cache software with ultra-high speed Express Flash PCIe solid state drives and creates a cache pool within the server. Fluid Cache for DAS software enables caching of active working datasets, which accelerates response times for data intensive performance workloads. In addition, Fluid Cache for DAS maintains replicas in cache, so there's no tradeoff on data integrity for the sake of performance acceleration.
Kishore Gagrani are there any questions to start?
Kishore Gagrani I know wrote a long sentatnace to intro
Tom Which product lines use this?
Kishore Gagrani greate question
Khaled Omar MD 1000 is an example for the DAS ?
Kishore Gagrani Since Fluid Cache for DAS 1.0 leverages the Express Flash PCIe SSD infrastructure to create the high-performance cache, this initial 1.0 launch will be offered only on those PowerEdge servers that can support Express Flash PCIe SSDs and external PowerVault storage, the PowerEdge R620, R720 & R820, as well as the PowerEdge T620.
MichaelD I read that currently only Linux is supported, any time line available for Windows or VMware support?
Kishore Gagrani and the the version 1.0 is supported only on Linux servers
JBarnhart-Dell Fluid Cache for DAS is not currently not supported on Dell Blades
Derek Dolan Given the limitations in the 1.0 release, can you give some examples of applications that could benefit from Fluid Cache?
Kishore Gagrani Windows and VMware support is on the roadmap , we will annouce the plan soon on those
Lance Boley We also have Gordon, Bryan JBarnhart online to help with questions, so ask away ...
Gordon Bookless Any I/O heavy application could benefit from Fluid Cache, Oracle would be a great example.
Ron Stefani Are there plans for this to be supported with non-DAS storage in the future?
erson What is the minimum amount of Express Flash PCIe SSD units needed for a pool?
Tom How does it work?
JBarnhart-Dell <---- Technical Marketing for Dell Servers
David White What other fast media can take advantage of FluidCache? (e.g. std server memory, other types of Flash / DRAM devices, etc)
moffaa i have heard you need some kind of dedicated network to link this all together with multiple nodes
Gordon Bookless The software presents itself as a storage filter driver to the Operating System.
Bryan Martin Hi, I'm the Product Planner, we will be releasing 2.0 for Compellent Storage to PE Servers in Q4 of this year
Ron Stefani Thanks, Bryan!
JBarnhart-Dell 1 Express Flash drive for read cache and minimum of 2 Express Flash drives for read/write back cache up to a total of 4 to increase the size of the cache pool up to 1.4TB.
Tom Will this be used in other prodiucts, like the DR4000/DR4100?
Gordon Bookless moffaa:We are talking here about the DAS release, which has no network requirements. Later on this year we will be releasing the SAN version which will require a cache network.
moffaa thanks i guess i am on step ahead!!
erson moffaa: If I recall correctly it's 10GbE
Bryan Martin David, in the future we will support other cache mediums. We led off with PCIe SSD due to the huge disparity in performance to SAS/SATA currently. Longer term, we have lots of plans. The company we acquired was originally a memory virtualization company. More to come.
MichaelD I presume from the phrasing of the earlier statement on blade support, that it is being looked into for a future release?
Khaled Omar Kishore, you mentioned the models of servers that can support Express Flash PCIe SSDs, what about the DAS model, all are supported ?
Tom which compnay did this come from>
Bryan Martin MichaelD:We absolutely have plans to support Blades in our 2.0 end-to-end release with Compellent SAN
erson Tom: RNA Networks
Kishore Gagrani Omar> All Dell PowerEdge 12G Servers which supports Dell's Express Flash Drive and have a support for DAS
David White Do you have any performance tests to show the actual difference it makes?
Tom thx
Khaled Omar ok
JBarnhart-Dell @ Tom. the Ocarina/DR units referenced which Dell recently released are not going to incorporate the Fluid Cache for DAS SW
Tom thx
JBarnhart-Dell @Tom, np
John_L Khaled Omar, MD1200 and MD1220 are the only enclosures that are supported as the can connect to the PERC H810. MD1000 and MD1120 are not supported
Khaled Omar exactly John
Khaled Omar this is what i'm asking about
Kishore Gagrani David White>> Yes, we have done several testings, e.g. Fluid Cache outperforms baseline configuration in HPC NSS environment by 15X
erson Is the Fluid Cache license per server or per Express Flash module? Is there a upgrade fee to get 2.0 when that is released?
Kishore Gagrani David White >> there are other testing results in OLTP environment showing as much as 95% improvement in Active Response Time e.g.
Kishore Gagrani Erson>> Fluid Cache for DAS is per server perpetual license (very simple and diffrentiated licensing)
David White Thx. And is server licence trasferrable between servers (eg migration of a workload / end of life of an old server)?
erson Do note that you can't upgrade an "ordinary" R620/R720/T620 to use Express Flash, you must choose that at the time of purchase
Kishore Gagrani Erson >>> there is a active maintenance agreeeemnt at about 20% of initial license per year , which gives you Pro-support and software maintenance
Bryan Martin erson> The 2.0 release is a totally separate code path: it is FLuid Cache for SAN. The DAS version is not upgradable
Gordon Bookless In addition to standard Linux applications and databases we have some customers that are looking at accelerating Hadoop like applications.
JBarnhart-Dell @ David the WP referencing OLTP workloads provides up to 60% more TPS, 95% imporvment in ART and 34% improve,ent in user load see blog- http://en.community.dell.com/dell-blogs/direct2dell/b/direct2dell/archive/2013/03/05/fluid-cache-for-das-1-0-enabling-our-customers-potential.aspx
erson Regarding performance advantages I'll bet David J. Morse and his team will put out some benchmarks for this solution?
Bryan Martin erson> following up:the DAS offering is upgradable to future DAS releases via support and Maintenance contract
Tom What types of applications benefit the most? DB, virtual, oracle more then SQl?
Khaled Omar can we we have a list of benefits added by the Fluid cache ?
Gordon Bookless @Tom - fluid cache accelerates writes, read-after-writes and re-reads, so any application that fits that I/O profile should benefit from it.
Kishore Gagrani The key benefits of Dell Fluid Cache for DAS are;Enhanced application performanceGreater scalabilityEasy manageability
JBarnhart-Dell @erson we are igoing to have two post RTS WP RE:OLTP and and one for HPC NFS which will address performance in the Ref Arch. - expect those within the next 5 days... in addition there will be follow on reviews and white papers as we deep dive into direct competitive testing
Khaled Omar great Kishore
Gordon Bookless @Khaled - in addition to the I/O acceleration customers will also benefit from the offload of I/O from their storage.
Kishore Gagrani The cache pool is the only solution which supports read and write caching, accelerate writes, read-after-writes and re-reads while providing high availability, most solutions only impact random reads.
Tom I see. Since there is a filter driver, are only specific OS's supported and what heppens if there are patches/upgrades to the OS, like Micrisft weekly updates?
Tom microsoft ;)
erson I'm assuming that the DTC crew will create a section of delltechcenter for Fluid Cache-content?
Miguel Pulido Is there an eval available for customers to try out in their specific usage environments?
Lance Boley @erson - Yes we will ...
David White Typically what work is needed to enable a DB or App to take advantage of the FluidCache, or is it plug in & use ?
Gordon Bookless @Tom - only specific O/S's are supported but assuming the kernels are binary compatible then there shouldn't be any issues.
Bryan Martin Miguel>>> Yes, we have a 90 day eval free software eval. You will need the hardware
Miguel Pulido thanks!
Gordon Bookless @David - fluid cache will be transparent to the application, you will need to remount your file system but no changes to the app are needed.
Khaled Omar is there amounts for caching ?
Bryan Martin Miguel>> if you have the hardware, should take less than 10 minutes to be up and running
erson The Fluid Cache feature only talks to those Express Flash modules at the moment, which are made by Micron Technology and which come in 175GB and 350GB capacities in their 2.5-inch form factor. The 175GB unit costs $2,843 and the 350GB unit costs $5,147
David White Cool!
erson I sure hope those are list prices :)
Tom I would be worried about patches/updates. So, would I have to pay attention to which patches/updates I install or just do like I do now and give all important updates
Khaled Omar good
Bryan Martin Khaled>> The cache size is dependent on the PCIe SSD's themselves. We will support up to 4 per 2U. Current SLC capacity limited to 350GB each but releasing MLC with 700GB in Q2 and up to 1.6TB per drive in Q4
Tom give=install
JBarnhart-Dell @miguel if you have a 12G rack server server which has at least 1 or 2 Express Flash drives (R620, R720, R820) and the Linus OS yoiu have the basics of what you need to take advantage of Fluid Cache for DAS, the MD 1200 or 1220 storage is optional
Gordon Bookless @Tom - patches should not be an issue - for example we currently support RHELv 6.3 and have upgraded to various z-kernels without any issues. The only issue would be if the patch broke binary compatibility.
JBarnhart-Dell err Linux
erson So version 2.0 is Compellent-support. Is Equallogic-support further down the roadmap?
Kishore Gagrani << Erson - Yea, Equallogic is on the roadmap
Tom OK
Khaled Omar everything still can be managed from Dell OpenManage software or there is another separete software added ?
Kishore Gagrani Omar>>> Absolutely
Kishore Gagrani OMSS or CLI
Khaled Omar supported by all MS. windows ?
Kishore Gagrani Omar >> The first version of Fluid Cache for DAS is only supported on Linuxx
Kishore Gagrani Linux
Bryan Martin Khaled>> we will support MS Windows on a later release but we will focus on 2012 forward
Tom RHEL, CentOS, Ubuntu, and ???
Khaled Omar good
Kishore Gagrani RHEL (6.2, 6.3) and SLES 11 SP2
erson Is Fluid Cache the first stepping stone to something that will span multiple servers or is it only seen as a per server technology in the long run as well?
Khaled Omar there is a driver to be installed, right ?
Tom Dare I mention proliant...do they have something like this?
erson Good to hear about Windows 2012 support
JBarnhart-Dell @ Tom - no they have nothing, they wished they did :)
erson Tom: nope
Tom ;)
Bryan Martin erson>> Fludi Cache DAS is the introductory offering. The SAN offering will incorporate pooled cache across multiple server nodes in a read/write-back
Gordon Bookless @Khaled - yes, there is an rpm that will get installed which installs the driver.
erson Bryan Martin: awesome!
Tom does it help with server startup, much faster or no diff?
Khaled Omar so is this can make the DAS cascaded enclosures be increased to support more storage disks?
Gordon Bookless @Tom - it won't affect server startup, you cannot have your boot drive on a fluid cache volume. One thing fluid cache does though, is it maintains a warm cache on a reboot so you don't have to refill the cache.
erson Fluid Cache 2.0 looks very similiar to EMC VFCache
Gordon Bookless @Khaled - it won't increase the actual number of disks supported off the Perc but you put the cache in front of all of the disks.
Khaled Omar i see
Bryan Martin erson>> VfCache is similar in many ways. They currently do not support write-back cache
Dennis Smith Be sure to give us feedback here:) -------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Dennis Smith Since my arrow didn't point all the way...that was for the pole on the right
Dennis Smith poll
Sarah Vela or the poll ;)
Dennis Smith :)
@kylemurley Curious to know if/how 'right sized' cache can be determined, also how does performance monitoriing communicate the benefit Fluid Cache is providing. Is there a GUI, any type of reporting in this release?
Tom Is it like NVRAM?
erson Try and perhaps buy-scenario would be better... ;)
Bryan Martin Tom>> It is not NVRAM like in the sense that NVRAM uses a very small amount of DRAM backed by NAND using a super cap or battery to accelerate.
Khaled Omar so is there a battery attached ?
David White Good point Kylemurley - some driver-based tools wipe out the usual OS counters for performance throughputs.. What performance information can be extracted from FluidCache, or is it accessible from the usual OS info?
Bryan Martin Tom>> where Fluid Cache uses PCIe Flash drives that can range up to 3TB each
Gordon Bookless @kylemurley - the cache should be sized based on the working data set. there are a number of ways to determine that such as Dell's dpac solution. OMSS can be used to manage the cache and it also include cache usage statistics and perfomance.
Gordon Bookless @David - there are also command line tools that can display the cache utilization and performance
David White Good, thanks.
@kylemurley @Gordon. Thx
erson Is Dennis Smith the pole dancer... err I mean the poll master?
@kylemurley Are users saying that write-back cache is a critical/desired feature? Do the benefits of writeback outweigh the complexity of orchestrating a nother 'tier ' of data to be protected?
Sarah Vela erson took my joke
Sarah Vela which, thank you erson. because it would be inappropriate of me. ;)
erson Sarah Vela, sorry for that, I give you the next one
@kylemurley @DSmith only dances under bridges... ;-)
Dell-Peter T lol
Tom Is there a significant difference in heat output/power usage?
Dell-Peter T need more work on the polls
Bryan Martin @kylemurley>> wite back shows significant performance in all applications that actually work on the data. an OLAP worload would not benefit but OLTP worklod shows tremendous benefits. The data orhestration is simply what's required and the IP from RNA
Tom Like if I had a rack of servers full of these cards...would I have to be concerned w/ac?
erson So 2.0 at Q4 and then 3.0 around 13G with Haswell-EP. Looks good to me... :)
erson Tom: they are SSDs so heat output is minimal
Tom thx
Gordon Bookless @Tom - the flash drives don't add any significant load in terms of power or heat
erson Dell being all open and so I kinda wish they would support other types of PCIe SSDs than their own Express Flash. Perhaps that is in the cards?
Bryan Martin erson:We will be supporting NVMe devices as standard in a later release
JBarnhart-Dell Dell Tech Center Blog - http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/extras/b/news/archive/2013/03/04/techchat-fluid-cache-for-das.aspx
@kylemurley @Bryan Thank you. Regarding overhead consumed in protecting the data, say I have 2 Dell R820s each w/350GB Microns in them, assuming a 'fully warmed cache' what percentage of that space is useable on each?
erson Bryan:Good, much respect for keeping it open
Dennis Smith Be sure to vote in the new polls on the right
Dell-Peter T more technical blog is located here: http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/b/techcenter/archive/2013/03/05/improving-oltp-database-performance-using-dell-fluid-cache-for-das.aspx
Gordon Bookless @Kylemurley - 100% of the SSD space is always available for the cache but I assume you are asking about the ovrehead for the write cache? Fluid cache replicates "dirty" blocks to another SSD, and keeps the copy until the data is pesisted to the backend st
Lance Boley We have just a couple more minutes for any last questions ...
JBarnhart-Dell @Tom- you asked about power consumption - there will be a post RTS test and 3rd party review which will provide information regarding power consumption during synthetic workload testing... expect that in the next 90 days
@kylemurley @ Thx SuperTsai
@kylemurley @Gordon . Thank you. Yes, so only overhead is until the de-staging occurs.
Gordon Bookless Correct
Lance Boley Thanks everyone we had some great questions, talk to everyone next time.
Sarah Vela thanks to all of you for participating!
Tom Thanks, this is great!!!
Kishore Gagrani thank you
@kylemurley Great. Exciting advances coming. looking forward to VMware and coordination between Fluid Cache & Dell array controller caches / tiers for autotiering/progression
Miguel Pulido Thank you!!!
Kishore Gagrani Look forward to your taking Fluid Cache on ride
erson Thanks to Kishore, Bryan Martin, JBarnhart, Gordon Bookless and David White! And everyone I forgot to mention...