Chat Transcript

Dell-DennisS Hello everyone! We are going to get started in just a few minutes
Dell-DennisS give a little more time for people to join
Dell-DennisS Joining us today we have Chhandomay, Shash, and Sujit from our Dell Equallogic team. Would you three like to give a brief introduction?
Dell-ChhandomayM Sure, I am from the Equallogic Technical Marketing team, covering all aspects of Vdi storage for the Equallogic platform.
DELL-SHASHI Hi, I am Shashi from the Equallogic engineering team.
Dell-DennisS Welcome It_guru and Lee
DELL-SHASHI I am part of Storage Infrastructure and Solutions team. We develop best practices that apply across a wide range of enterprise application and data center environments.
Dell-ChhandomayM Getting started: So Shashi, give us a quick overview of the recent project you did on Xendesktop and Equallogic
Lee4Dell Hey D!
Dell-DennisS Hey d_glynn, thanks for joining
Dell_Sujit Hello, I work with Shashi as part of the Storage Infrastructure and Solutions team. Shashi and I focus on developing white papers and best practices for Vdi on Equallogic
DELL-SHASHI This primary objectives of this project is to determine how many virtual desktops can be deployed using Equallogic Ps6010xvs arrays (citrix Xendesktop)
DELL-SHASHI We used provisioning servers to stream the Os disk image.
DELL-SHASHI Citrix Xendesktop was used with Esxi as the hypervisor.
Dell-ChhandomayM While Shashi is typing, df & It_guru, what can we answer for you today?
IT_guru please explain the reasoning behind the choice of Citrix over the Vmware View product, especially when you have chosen a backbone of vsphere and not the citrix virtualization product
Dell-ChhandomayM We can do both View & Xendesktop
Dell-ChhandomayM We already published a paper on View, this one was on Xendesktop. We see both View & Xendesktop in the field
IT_guru do you find any significant operational or performance differences between the two platforms?
Dell-ChhandomayM And for Xendesktop, Equallogic customers predominently choose vsphere for hypervisor
DELL-SHASHI The way virtual desktops are deployed is completely different in both platforms. So it may not be a apple to apple comparison.
Dell-ChhandomayM And within Xendesktop, you can do different way of desktop provisioning -- Citrix Provisioning Services and Machine Creation Services. These two methods create different storage performance requirements
IT_guru i must admit i'm not familar with the Xendesktop platform, so my curiosity is driving these questions
Dell-LanceB Do you have some links to share with everyone about where to find out more informaion
Dell-ChhandomayM yes, let me bring up the links
Dell-DennisS So what was the total number of virtual desktops? How many arrays/total size? Which Os's were used?
DELL-SHASHI In this Xendesktop project, we deployed 630 desktops using a single Ps6010xvs array. Each virtual desktop consumed 3 Gb of storage capacity - 2 Gb of write cache (that includes 1 Gb page file) and 1 Gb of Ram.
Dell_Sujit Here's the link for the Xendesktop paper: http://dell.to/wdnxik
DELL-SHASHI A single Os image( Windows 7 ) was streamed to all virtual desktops using two virtualized provisioning servers.
IT_guru 404 error on that link btw
df That bit.ly link doesnt work for me
df same
Dell_Sujit here's the full link: http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/storage/w/wiki/sizing-and-best-practices-for-deploying-citrix-xendesktop-on-vmware-vsphere-with-dell-equallogic-storage-by-sis.aspx
Dell-ChhandomayM fixing that.
Dell_Sujit For the Vmware View paper please see: http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/storage/w/wiki/sizing-and-best-practices-for-deploying-vmware-view-vdi-with-equallogic-storage.aspx
IT_guru you wouldn't have the link to the paper on View as well would you?
DELL-SHASHI We used eight M610 blade servers( Each with 96GB Memory) for deploying 630 virtual desktops.
Dell_Sujit It_guru, just posted the link for Vmware View too.
Dell-DennisS So when I am wanting to choose a storage platform for Vdi, what do I need to take into consideration?
Dell-ChhandomayM It_guru: View paper is slightly dated, we will refresh it in coming months but the findings and guidelines still hold
Dell-ChhandomayM What are your current Vdi plans, It_guru?
Dell-ChhandomayM When choosing a storage platform for Vdi, you need to carefully plan for both your capacity needs And performance needs.
IT_guru purchased a 10 user starter kit of View, just need to get it rolling.
DELL-SHASHI It_guru, What infrastructure are you plannning to use for View ?
Dell-ChhandomayM Capacity considersations are slightly easier, but performance considerations are key for a successful deployment.
Dell-ChhandomayM You need to figure out what type of users you are going to support, what applications, how you are separating your user data and Vm data,
DELL-SHASHI df, Can you please let us know about the challenges you are seeing in your environment ?
Dell-DennisS What is a safe storage expectation you can plan for per user/vm?
Dell-ChhandomayM once you run some monitoring tool, you will get an idea of the Iops that your workload is generating -- you need to size the storage according to the total Iops you will end up needing
Dell-ChhandomayM Dennis, that depends. :-)
IT_guru we purchased a Ps4000 and have a couple of fancy dell servers
Dell-ChhandomayM Typically task worker or low-end knowledge workers create 7-10 Iops per Vm in steady state
Dell-ChhandomayM very cool, It_guru. We can answer any Equallogic questions as well :-) (whether Vdi-related or not)
IT_guru i'm actually having some trouble with a Sql installation we virtualized. Any best practices from Eql?
DELL-SHASHI Welcome Darkingdk. Thanks for joining.
Dell-LanceB @it_guru we have some papers on www.delltechcenter.com/storage or you could post questions in our forums as well. http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/storage/f/4466.aspx
Dell-ChhandomayM It_guru: Couple of Sql paper links
DarkingDK Thank You. Im not sure what the purpose of this chat is though :)
Dell-LanceB @darkingdk we are chatting about Vdi with Xen, vsphere and Equallogic ...
Dell-ChhandomayM Having trouble with links, Sujit is typing the Sql paper links
Dell_Sujit Here are the links for the Sql papers: 1. http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/storage/w/wiki/3463.deploying-microsoft-sql-server-2008-dss-systems-using-dell-equallogic-10gbe-iscsi-storage-by-sis.aspx
Dell_Sujit 2. http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/storage/w/wiki/enhancing-sql-server-protection-using-equallogic-smart-copy-snapshots.aspx
DarkingDK Ah, Im not really Desktop virtualising, im running Xenapp, on Vsphere, on Equallogic.. so sorta Application Virtualisation instead
Dell_Sujit 3. http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/storage/w/wiki/3499.microsoft-sql-server-2008-backup-and-restore-using-dell-equallogic-by-sis.aspx
Dell-ChhandomayM Btw, It_guru, in addition to forum Lance referred, customer support is a very good option.
Dell-LanceB @darkingdk, you might some of this valuable ...
Dell-ChhandomayM there are quite a few technical reports (on Sql) in http://www.equallogic.com/support
DarkingDK indeed, i recon that disk Io and latency issues are the same in both senarios
DELL-SHASHI @darkingdk, we did not specifically tested Xenapp in the last test. But most of the sizing guidelines and best practices will be valid for this implementaion as well..
DarkingDK Shashi i can tell you that adding a 6100xs to my Storage pool helped alot
Dell_Sujit It_guru: here's one such tech report that you might find useful. (equallogic support login required): "deploying Microsoft Sql Server in an iscsi San": https://support.equallogic.com/workarea/downloadasset.aspx?id=5225
Dell-ChhandomayM @darkingdk -- yes, storage characterization is all about what is the Iops need and capacity need. And the storage solution should deliver your required Iops under 20ms latency
DELL-SHASHI @darkingdk, that's Great :). Can you please let us know little bit more about the infrastructure you used ?
Dell-LanceB @darkingdk what other arrays do you have in your group?
DarkingDK 500 concurrent users on Xenapp is around 1400 Iops constant pressure
DarkingDK I have 3x Ps6000 running raid50
DarkingDK and a ps6100xs
DarkingDK all in one pool
DarkingDK not ideal, because of the way balancing works, but i needed the storage
Dell-ChhandomayM you mean 14000 Iops?
DarkingDK oh no
DarkingDK not with 500 users :P
DarkingDK actually my enviroment gets a bit more complex.. Im running Xenapp Provisioned through Citrix Provisoning ontop of vsphere
DarkingDK In general my volume latency is excellent
Dell-ChhandomayM what is the read:write mix approx in your Xenapp environment
DarkingDK 5r/95w
DarkingDK i do have some issues where my group latency is high though
DarkingDK between 20-30ms, but it does not really seem to affect volume performance
Dell-ChhandomayM so what was your total Iops in the Eql group level? 1400?
DarkingDK somewhere between 3000 and 4000 on average
DarkingDK I run pretty much our entire enviroment on the same arrays
Dell-ChhandomayM now it makes sense :-)
DarkingDK we are a smallish company, and cant really afford dedicated storage to different installations :)
Dell-ChhandomayM so what type of 6000 arrays, E, X, Xv?
DarkingDK Xvs
DarkingDK And i do love them :)
DarkingDK they have been very stable
Dell-LanceB don't we all ...
Dell-ChhandomayM thank you :-)
DarkingDK we did have some issues upgrading to 5.1.2 but it seems that engineering got it fixed for me
Dell-ChhandomayM Btw, I do not know your rest of the environment, but if you have 95%+ writes for the total env, then of course adding the hybrid arrays make a lot of difference
DELL-SHASHI It_guru, I am assuming that you are using Ps4100xs array for your View infrastructure.
DarkingDK But comming from Emc claarion everything is better with equallogic ;)
Dell-ChhandomayM Let's do a case study with you ;-)
Dell-ChhandomayM @it_guru, what type of 4100 do you have?
DarkingDK chhandomaym: i believe it will help alot too, and it allows for some additional bonuses with reguards to sql performance, and indexing on sharepoint too, not only vdi
Dell-ChhandomayM @darkingdk -- do you want to connect offline
DarkingDK The only issue i have is.. as much as it pains me.. Sanhq does not really show if my Ssds are beeing used for anything
DarkingDK it might just be my setup, or something, but the Cached Group write graphs are alwas completely blank, so i assume it doesnt work correctly. I can always check individual disks and see the io load there
IT_guru ps4000, not sure your letter designations but it has 16x 1Tb drives
DELL-SHASHI @darkingdk, you will be able to see the disk level I/o activity on San Hq. You need to click on "disks" and then you can see I/o happening on each disk.
DarkingDK Shashi: yeah i found that out, i had just hoped i would be able to see it, since the put in that graph and all in the I/o pane :)
Dell-ChhandomayM so it looks like the Sata array, "E" is for Sata arrays; "XV" is for 15K Rpm drive arrays; "X" for 10K Rpm drives; "S" is for Ssd arrays etc.
Dell-ChhandomayM you have Ps4100e
Dell-ChhandomayM @it_guru, as you do your Vdi pilot, keep an eye on the storage performance using San Hq
DELL-SHASHI @darkingdk, there is also an option "enhanced Write Cache Usage" which will give you an idea about how Ssds are being used..
DarkingDK shashi: yeah thats the one, that one isnt working/or its not showing me anything atleast
Dell-ChhandomayM @it_guru, once you have your environment up & running, you will get an idea how much Iops per Vm you are getting; from there you can extrapolate the max load you can drive out of the array for Vdi
DarkingDK regarding Vdi, are there advantages running 10gige or does it not matter so much with a single array?
Dell-ChhandomayM there is no performance advantage in using 10G arrays for Vdi; the Vdi workload is random with block sizes in 10-30kb range;
Dell-ChhandomayM 10G arrays are for higher thoughput requirements with sequential workloads;
Dell-ChhandomayM however, you get the advantage of reduced cabling etc. with 10G
Dell-ChhandomayM so either 1G or 10G is fine
Dell-DennisS Good chat today guys...looks like we have ran out of time for today. If there are any other questions that didn't get answered, please post in our fourms and we'll get a response for you.
DarkingDK Thank you, we have been thinking about trying a switch from Application virtualisation to vdi, but i was in a bit of a doubt if our 1gig infrastructure would be smart for it
IT_guru is it true that you overrun the output bandwidth of the drives before you can consume all of the 10g's bandwidth? as in, the bottleneck is with the drives before the Nic except for the Ssds?
Dell-ChhandomayM also, @darkingdk, @it_guru, and @df, I am in twitter with @chhandomay -- please feel free to Dm me if you want to touch base offlibne
DELL-SHASHI @darkingdk, we used 2Gig bandwidth from each server dedicated for Vdi traffic. We could scale upto 1270 desktops. But again it depends on the actual workload.
Dell-DennisS Thanks everyone for joining...see you next week where talk Suse with Dell Servers!
DarkingDK Thank you
Dell-LanceB This has been a great chat, thanks everyone
IT_guru thanks everyone
Dell-ChhandomayM Thanks everybody. Again, I'm at your twitter service :-) with @chhandomay