Technical Community - Background Reading

Official Information from Intel after launch (March 16th)

Performance comparisons (older Xeon generations and AMD Opteron)

Information available before launch

Chat Transcript

J_Riel_Intel_FAE Hi Scott. Glad to be a part of the chat today.
erson Intel has released the specification update. It’s good stuff: http://www.intel.com/assets/en_us/pdf/specupdate/323372.pdf
erson Me likes to check out the Turbo Boost bins.
Dell-ScottH You are quite the link hunter. You should have your own TV show. :-)
Dell-ScottH I just sent out the last tweet to announce this chat. It will likely be a lighter turnout. Many got what they needed two days ago, but Erson never gets his fill. :-)
erson I guess I got some acronym-disorder probably. :)
Dell-ScottH Usually most join up to five minutes after, at that point I'll kick it off.
erson FAE stands for?
Dell-ScottH FAE = Field Application Engineer (techie)
Tom So, 6-cores and AES in microcode. Anything else that I'm missing?
Dell-ScottH Well, Tom certainly can sum it up in 140 characters. :-)
Intel_GWagnon And more power efficient, especially under load.
cgreenoh How much more, and versus what? Previous generation?
Dell-ScottH OK, I’m going to kick it off.
Intel_GWagnon Vs. Xeon 5500 Series (Nehalem-EP), which was great at idle, but not the best while under load.
Intel_GWagnon And certainly better than previous to that.
Dell-ScottH This is an informal chat as always so keep on asking away.
Dell-ScottH This is a continuation of the chat from two days ago. You can catch up on the transcript here in your free time: http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/03-16-10+intel+westmere-ep+chat.
Dell-ScottH Today we have the pleasure of Jeff Riel from Intel joining us to dive a little deeper into the Xeon 5600 series processors.
Dell-ScottH Jeff, please introduce yourself and tell us what the role of an FAE is.
J_Riel_Intel_FAE Sorry for not doing so sooner.
Dell-ScottH This chat is recorded and the transcript will be available tomorrow, so don't worry about copying down the links.
Dell-ScottH Thanks to everyone for joining.
J_Riel_Intel_FAE I am a field applications engineer in Austin. I work directly with the PowerEdge teams in developing Intel-based servers.
J_Riel_Intel_FAE In addition to the core count increase and AES new instructions, we continued to tune Turbo Boost so that it provides even greater power efficiency.
erson This is a deep dive chat, will you tell me about the new Asids (address space identifier) that prevents the TLB (translation lookaside buffer) from being flushed when switching VMs?
Dell-ScottH For those that missed it, Erson posted the link to the new spec sheet: http://www.intel.com/assets/en_us/pdf/specupdate/323372.pdf
J_Riel_Intel_FAE Wow, really diving deep there. I doubt we can get there in a chat session.
erson That’s not the new spec sheet, it's the specification update.
Tom OK, maybe a less deep question, but it will take custom code/recomplie for encryption algorithms to take advantage of the AES instructions, right?
erson It contains errata and CPU identification/branding and especially it's the only place that I know of that lists the Turbo Boost binnings.
J_Riel_Intel_FAE You are correct on the AES utilization, but optimizations can be significant so for applications that are encryption heavy, it is not something to shy away from.
erson I'm guessing most people want to glance through the product brief: http://www.intel.com/assets/en_us/pdf/prodbrief/323501.pdf
erson Tom, BitLocker, OpenSSL and other already have support for AES-NI.
Tom Thanks Erson, I was just going to ask that.
erson There was some discussion about it on the chat earlier this week. You should check out the transcript.
Tom Will do.
Dell-ScottH Not a bad article on physical/virtual memory and address translation - wrt Hyper-V R2 - helped me interpret Erson’s question :-) - http://www.virtualizationadmin.com/articles-tutorials/microsoft-hyper-v-articles/general/second-level-address-translation-benefits-hyper-v-r2.html
Dell-ScottH Jeff, can you explain the "bins" of Intel Turbo Boost technology? Will help out for those reading the transcript later.
erson I'm quite impressed with the quad core version of Xeon 5600 with a TDP of 40W. That's 10W per core.
J_Riel_Intel_FAE The Turbo Boost bins are effectively the amount of headroom any given part number has to exceed the rated frequency.
Dell-ScottH So, what is the interpretation of 2/2/3/3/4/4?
J_Riel_Intel_FAE Some general guidelines here: parts that are spec'd at lower power (TDP) will have less capability to raise the frequency in increments of "bins"; the higher TDP parts have a greater capability to raise their frequency.
erson If the cooling is sufficient it will overclock itself 2x133mhz when using all six cores. 2x133 when using five cores. 3x133 when using 4 cores, and so on.
J_Riel_Intel_FAE The numbers refer to the amount of frequency upside exists.
erson It can only do this if there is enough "headroom" in regards to the TDP. In other words, if the cooling is sufficient.
J_Riel_Intel_FAE Erson hit it right on the bins.
erson The Turbo Boost bins are actually quite different among the models.
J_Riel_Intel_FAE The determination for this is both temperature and power draw so that the system VRs will not be overloaded, i.e. the power draw stays within the specification.
Dell-ScottH Does this mean it will vary a little from the different vendors such as HP, IBM and Dell, depending on the cooling design, or is it more with the ambient temperature in the room?
Intel_GWagnon 'Headroom" also as a result of the number of threads being used. Fewer threads = fewer cores needed = less power required = more turbo.
erson Scott pasted the bins for the L5640 which has a base frequency of 2.26 GHz but when cooled sufficiently it will always run at 2.53 GHz when under load and using all six cores.
J_Riel_Intel_FAE You could argue it could be both – the cooler the part the more apt it is to enter the Turbo zone when the need arises.
J_Riel_Intel_FAE What it does not mean though is that you can exceed these predefined frequency increases so think of them as a cap on the max frequency.
Dell-ScottH Greg, so this gets to last chat discussion - either more cores, or more frequency at same power draw.
erson If you're running a workload that can't utilize many threads, it will shut off maybe four of the cores and spin up the two remaining cores to 2.80GHz.
Dell-ScottH I seem to remember a YouTube or online demo that showed this. Does anyone have the link?
J_Riel_Intel_FAE The "game" though is being able to use Turbo as efficiently as possible so it is a balance of good thermals and intelligent use of Turbo Boost for your specific application.
erson Here’s the video demonstration link: http://www.intel.com/technology/product/demos/turboboost/demo.htm?iid=tech_tb+demo
Dell-ScottH Is this configurable in the BIOS? Is it an on/off thing?
Intel_GWagnon Not sure about same, but the cores running will see the power available from the 'off' cores as available to use in Turbo.
Dell-ScottH That’s a nice quick demo. The dots move fast, then they move faster. :-)
J_Riel_Intel_FAE I believe Dell BIOS setup contains a switch for Turbo on/off, but you would need to verify this in the specific platform.
Intel_GWagnon Turbo on/off is typically an option in BIOS. It’s vendor dependant on just how they do it.
Dell-MonicaG Scott, our servers have an enable/disable switch in the Bios setup for Turbo Boost.
Intel_GWagnon Or rather, if they implement it.
erson It's just a matter of each CPU having a predefined power envelope. The CPU tries to overclock the cores if there are Turbo Boost bins available for the number of cores that are running. When it shuts down cores there is instantly more headroom towards the power envelope thus giving access to more Turbo Boost bins.
Dell-ScottH Jeff, can you give some details on the TXT (Trusted Execution Technology) feature and uses?
erson It's an effective way to make multi-core CPUs fast even on single-thread loads. When quad cores was "new" you always had dual core that were faster than the quad cores on single-thread workloads since the dual cores always had a faster frequency for the same buck compared to the quad cores. It gives you the best of both worlds.
Dell-ScottH All of this processor frequency talk makes me want to get a new workstation. :-)
J_Riel_Intel_FAE TXT is Intel Trusted Execution Technology. It is an effort to continuously improve the security of the platform.
Intel_GWagnon FYI, regarding TXT, there was a fairly good post about it posted to our site today: http://communities.intel.com/community/openportit/server/blog/2010/03/18/trust-but-verify.
cgreenoh Scott, I'm just trying to keep up. ;)
J_Riel_Intel_FAE That post by Greg on TXT is a great blog entry for an overview.
Dell-ScottH Greg, thanks for the link, provides just the overview I was looking for.
erson Let’s not forget the Intel Xeon W3680. In what type of products will it be used?
Intel_GWagnon Intel Xeon W3680 will be used for single socket workstations.
Tom Non-deep dive question, but is the Xeon 5600 series a drop in replacement/upgrade for Xeon 5500 series?
Dell-ScottH Cgreenoh, you're keeping up more than you’re letting on. :-)
erson Tom, yes, with a BIOS update.
Intel_GWagnon Core i7, but with ECC essentially.
erson I'm expecting that Intel will release more CPUs in the 3600 series during the year.
Intel_GWagnon Releasing more? No comment. :)
Dell-MonicaG Tom, the 130W Westmeres will not be supported on our existing systems. Those require a new motherboard because of the higher TDP. But all other Westmere SKUs are supported on existing platforms with BIOS and iDRAC upgrades.
erson So you’re not going to tell me about the W3670 that will bring hexacore below $600 then? ;)
Intel_GWagnon Tom, yes for most systems, but you need to verify with the exact system you have.
Intel_GWagnon I know of a few systems (non-Dell) that were not designed forward very well.
Tom Thanks!
erson Dell-monicag, what does that mean for the current server generation? Are you going to start doing Dell PowerEdge R710 “II” and so forth like you did with Dell PowerEdge 2950?
erson Westmere is sure nice, but I'm most excited about the Nehalem-EX going down to 2+ sockets.
Dell-MonicaG Erson, we are not branding them differently, but any systems that come with the new motherboard will be labeled with a "II" on the chassis and OM and iDRAC GUI will identify "II" as the system revision.
Intel_GWagnon Nehalem-EX is pretty nice, 2 socket is really interesting as well. Just have to be sure how it’s pitted against Xeon 5600 series. They are different creatures.
erson Dell-monicag, will there be any other difference to the “II” except the enhanced power delivery on the motherboard and perhaps increased cooling?
erson Intel_gwagnon: see you here on the 30th?
Intel_GWagnon Erson, unfortunately and sadly, no. I have to hold down the fort.
Dell-MonicaG Erson, the only other difference is that it has the latest stepping of the chipset.
Intel_GWagnon Wow, my spelling actually kind of sucks in live chat mode. We need a spellchecker in this tool.
Dell-ScottH No spellchecker, like the real life.
Intel_GWagnon I guess I will just have to be more careful. ;)
erson Dell-monicag, ok, so the latest stepping of the Intel 5500/5520-chipset is needed for 130W support?
Intel_GWagnon Erson, not necessarily.
Dell-MonicaG Erson, no, the latest stepping is independent of the 130W support.
Intel_GWagnon 130W CPU support comes from robust power management on the board (VR's and such).
Intel_GWagnon The latest chipset buys you some of the key features (TXT support I think) Jeff, is this true?
erson It's true.
erson Stepping C2 gives you TXT.
erson B3 didn't.
J_Riel_Intel_FAE That is correct, Erson.
erson I'm reading the specification update for the Intel 5500/5520 chipset :)
Intel_GWagnon That will give you all the dirty details on what you get from B3.
J_Riel_Intel_FAE I would like the Dell people on the thread to answer any system-specific questions, such as the 130W support, as that is a platform implementation.
J_Riel_Intel_FAE Monica answered it, just wanted to state that I will shy away from platform-specific questions in favor of the Dell people on the chat.
Intel_GWagnon I suppose the real question for Dell then, is about which platforms get refreshed with the new chipset version... and which systems support 130W, regardless of new chipset.
erson I was a bit disappointed that the Xeon 5600 wasn't available in the Dell server configurators on launch date. There must have been thousands of people who wanted to maximize configurations their favorite server with the latest and greatest CPU to kick start their dream mode.
Dell-ScottH Andre, Monica? Is there a chart that shows which can be upgraded or which will be refreshed with the “II” model?
Dell-MonicaG Greg, all systems are getting updated with the new chipset revision; Dell PowerEdge R710, R610, T610, T710, M610, and M710 will be supporting 130W as well.
Intel_GWagnon Very nice.
Dell-ScottH Well, the hour passes quickly, we are up at the top.
Intel_GWagnon Shows that y'all have 'robust' designs.
Dell-ScottH Thanks to all our friends at Intel, especially Jeff and Greg for joining the chat today
Intel_GWagnon Appreciate the invite.
Dell-ScottH Thanks, Monica for fielding questions!
erson Thanks, Intel.
J_Riel_Intel_FAE Thank you for inviting us!
Dell-ScottH And, thanks to Erson for making us dig deep! :-)
Dell-ScottH And Tom as well!
Tom :-)
Dell-ScottH We appreciate everyone taking the time.
Dell-ScottH See you in a couple of weeks for Nehalem-EX! ... I mean Ssssshhhhhh.
Intel_GWagnon Is the Nehalem-EX next? ;)
erson These chats are always fact-filled. When you Google for this stuff the DellTechCenter chats always rank very high.
Dell-ScottH Transcripts rock for SEO! :-)
erson I've already started to refresh this page: http://ark.intel.com/productcollection.aspx?codename=33175&code=westmere-ex
erson :)
Dell-ScottH :-)
Dell-ScottH Thanks again everyone, have a great weekend!
Intel_GWagnon Erson, I think you have a little time before Westmere-EX. :)
erson Yeah, not too much I hope. It would be nice if the MP-systems could catch a bit so they don't fall too far behind, especially now since they are going to start from 2 sockets and up.
Intel_GWagnon We have wonderful things to come. I will leave it at that. ;)
erson So we should expect the follow up to Westmere-EX this time next year?
erson Intel spoiled us with just a year between the awesome Nehalem-EP and Westmere-EP
erson First a kick ass new architecture with Nehalem and then more cores with Westmere. Could it be any better?
Intel_GWagnon If you look at the cadence, it is approximately one year between the EP class of products going back for a while.
Intel_GWagnon Could it be better? Trust me. Yes, you will have to wait though.
erson Nehalem-EX - yes!
erson That’s probably a record performance jump for Intel?
Intel_GWagnon Nehalem-EX? Yes it is.
Intel_GWagnon We've been showing demo's of it at the Intel Developer Forum (IDF) and other places for a little while.
erson I mean the quad core Xeon 5500 beats the hexacore 7400 in quite a lot of workloads.
Intel_GWagnon Again from my earlier comment... different creatures.
erson I know. I tend to follow things "a bit.” :)
Intel_GWagnon Try comparing Core i to a Xeon.
Intel_GWagnon You skip a lot of features if you are just looking at raw performance numbers.
Intel_GWagnon ECC being a huge one.
erson I've seen the web cast and slides from Pawlowski from the IDF.
Intel_GWagnon Then, the jump from the EP class (5600) to the EX class is just as significant with regard to features.
erson Didn't see Scott in the audience though, he live-twittered it if I remember correctly.
erson Significant jump in price as well.
Intel_GWagnon Scott?
erson I do like that the manufacturers do more of their own things with the MP-systems. IBM with their RAM extension on their IBM eX5. Dell with their Dimm setup on the PowerEdge M910. I'm sure HP has similar things in store.
Dell-ScottH “Ut ohhh.”
Intel_GWagnon It’s nice to see their differentiations. Makes it nice for customers to have a choice.
Dell-ScottH I was in the front row of that session.
Intel_GWagnon Same theory actually with all of our different SKU's of processors.
erson Hmm, maybe you should asterisk that part for the transcript... :)
Intel_GWagnon There are different needs out there, and different products fill as many needs as possible.
Dell-ScottH The choices are good, and having great sets of Legos (Intel) helps.
erson Is it considered common knowledge what the Nehalem-EX servers Dell will be releasing?
Intel_GWagnon Not that I know of, that’s a good question for Dell.
Dell-ScottH Not really.
erson This guy spilled the beans though: http://www.hypervizor.net/2009/10/dell-poweredge-r910-ultimate-virtual.html.
Dell-ScottH We let you know too much as it is.
erson I guess you burned his NDA after that blog post! :)
Dell-ScottH How much can he know "Nahalem." :-)
Dell-ScottH OK, really got to get this blog post done. Erson, it’s been a pleasure as always.
erson Ah well, I'm looking forward to the chat on the 30th. Sitting there in my ski lodge with my laptop and Hsupa modem. :)
Intel_GWagnon Yep, gotta run.
Dell-ScottH Very nice.
Intel_GWagnon Thanks for the good questions and the good resources, Erson.
erson No problem, I like this stuff :)
Intel_GWagnon Until next time... soon.
Intel_GWagnon ;)
erson http://bladesmadesimple.com/2010/03/4-socket-blade-servers-density-vendor-comparison/