Since I've now recently been ensnared in this problem of Dell computers
which suddenly and inexplicably no longer seem to be capable of
charging the laptop battery - although the AC adaptor still appears to
be fully functional in terms of powering the laptop, I thought I would
attempt to post the definitive thread on this issue, in an attempt to
identify a solution.
I have a probably 5+ year old Dell Latitude D600 laptop, purchased
used, and running Windows XP Professional without any problems for the
past 3-4 years. As an electronics engineer, I have no problem in
diagnosing and repairing minor eletrical problems, to include laptop
About 3 days ago during a reboot, I got the message saying that
"Warning: An unknown AC power adapter has been detected, >
preventing optimal system performance. Strike the F3 key (before the
F1> or F2 key) if you do not want to see power warning messages
again.". Not knowing what to make of that in terms of the implications,
I hit F3. Only a day or so later, I noticed that one of my two laptop
batteries had drained to zero and appeared to not be charging
correctly. I checked my two laptop batteries using the built-in test
button, and both showed OK, although one was nearly fully discharged. So, we know the
batteries are OK.
In checking the AC adaptor using a voltmeter, I checked the output, and
the output was right up to spec with the output right at 19.5V. I
examined the laptop AC connector port and it appeared to be both
solidly soldered to the motherboard with the connections all clean. Since I know that the
AC adaptor has very few moving parts (few = none), and since one of the
batteries I have is relatively new, I'm pretty sure the batteries and
laptop are not the problem. So, the battery and the AC adaptor upstream
all the way to the laptop all appears solid.
I'm somewhat hazy on the internal mechanism in the laptop that detects a
battery level discharge and routes power to the battery for charging,
while the laptop is in a powered-on or powered-off status - although I
will assume it functions somewhat similar to the alternator in a car,
and how a car battery is charged. So, something (physical or software)
has happened that has thwarted the charging mechanism or sensor. My guess is
something physical, since during the time of my problem, no software
changes come to mind. That suggests a physical problem. I've read some
threads suggestions problems with the motherboard, but I speculate that
those are mostly nonsense - since no other problems associated with the
motherboard have emerged. My best guess is that there's some problem
with the Power Circuit Board, although I can't discount some other
sensor failure problem that has caused the battery charging to fail.
This represents the extent of my best sense of the problem. I won't
discount all end-users problems that may possibly originate at the
battery or AC adaptor level, but I have definitively eliminated those
issues as problems on my end (so in proposing answers, don't offer up
either of those - or the "motherboard" issue as solutions either). Any
other possible suggestions on the way to a possible solution and if
this has been as large a problem as what I've read - any input from
Dell on a solution? I'll happily accept the fact that nothing lasts
forever without breaking, so I'm not sure why I've seen nothing very
compelling on this subject from Dell - since there are no shortage of spare parts out on the market and I'm happy to effect my own repair, but I need to know which component has failed so that I can replace it (since I'm simply not going to engage in a "random" repair strategy).
The power jack has likely come loose from the mainboard. Replace it IF you have the tools and expertise (it's multilayer-board soldering).
Okay, that sounds somewhat reasonable, and I'm certainly willing to crack open the case and take a look at the power input jack assembly and heat up my soldering iron. I guess I'm less clear on why I would want to replace it, if it has only just come loose from one of it's connections. And I'm likewise ambivalent (ambivalent = skeptical), that the rest of the laptop would be still be getting AC power, if a connection had separated, through repetitive movement / stress fracture (my power plug connector seems to be firmly anchored). I would have thought that the power supply routing that carries voltage to the entire laptop would be routed to the battery to recharge it in parallel, just like the battery shifts to discharge when the AC power is removed. I guess I can get in a check with a continuity test for broken connections.
Anybody else want to weigh-in?
I've had two similar problems with a D600. Both times it was dioagnosed as a motherboard fault (after 2 and 4 years), changed once under warranty and on the second occasion it cost me serious cash. I'm not sure whether this really was the problem or whether it's the stock remedy for similar faults. I was told by the 'engineer' on the first occasion that D600 boards were prone to failure.
As a follow-up to this posting, I elected to take a slightly different approach to a solution and while I didn't arrive completely at my destination, the trip has at least been fun and informative.
First, I saw no obvious signs of any failure on the AC power input assembly, but instead of searching for a new motherboard or breaking out my soldering iron, I canvassed eBay and managed to find a replacement (used) D600 base unit, which, while stripped down of mostly all its components did have a faster 1.6GHz speed processor, so I figured that for the $50 that it eventually cost me, it was a good investment to rule out the motherboard problem and the AC power input assembly issue.
Swapping out the components (screen, keyboard, DVD/CD drive, memory, wireless transmitter and hard drive) literally took ten minutes, and the unit powered up with no apparent problems. However, the same battery charging problem still persisted (AC adaptor not recognized) by the system. That almost has me wondering if the AC adaptor is somehow the culprit. I'm pretty sure by some fluke coincidence it can't possibly be both batteries (one of which still is carrying a charge), since they were both working fine before this problem occurred. So barring a higher level problem with the power supply to my entire house, that has to only leave a problem with the AC adapter or a software problem? I've never heard of a software problem like that, but let's not rule it out.
The thing I noticed is that I've got a PA-12 Family adapter, which is obviously powering the laptop just fine. But I see that there is also a PA-10 Family adaptor, which is also shown as being compatible with the Latitude D600 computers. The only difference in the specs that I see is that the PA-12 has a rated output DC of 19.5V at 3.34A and 65Watts and the PA-10 has a rated output DC of 19.5V at 4.62A and 90Watts. I will conceded that this is where my electrical knowledge begins to get thin. The differences in those DC outputs couldn't possibly be the problem, could it. Especially, when the PA-12 was obviously doing the job (previously). Anyone have any further thoughts on any of this, up to this point?
I love it when I get to answer/reply to my own postings, but I thought I would build on the posting based on some additional research I've done.
Okay, it appears that the PA-10 unit was produced primarily to power the Latitude D600 docking station unit. That accounts for the differential power output (I guess). The PA-12 unit is produced principally to power the Latitude D600 laptop alone. So, the PA-10 is downwardly compatible to the laptop alone, but not the converse, as the PA-12 apparently does not have sufficient output to power the docking station.
While this is all good information, I'm not sure it really answers my primary problem - which I still strongly suspect resides with a problem in the AC adapter. Still looking for input on this problem. Takers?
My daughter’s 18 months old XPS 1330 started to do the exactly the same last month. I have ordered a new battery ($ 200 Cdn) but it didn’t solve the problem. I have upgraded the BIOS to the latest version with no luck. We’ll try another adapter, from Dell’s retail booth at a nearby shopping center, to find out if this could be source of the problem but I’m getting very sceptical.
I’m wondering if this is not related to some sort of mod (software or hardware) Dell made to its computers’ charging system after the batteries started to explode all over the place a couple a years ago?
I must say that I’m now very upset having a $2000 computer that is now only giving 50% of its functionality after a relatively short existence L
Please let us now about your findings…
All right, time for another status update. After the earlier disappointment in finding out that there was probably nothing whatsoever wrong with my Latitude D600 motherboard (1.4Ghz), I was understandably bummed - except for the fact that I swapped out the base unit for a 1.6Ghz processor for only $50.
Since I know both of my batteries are in good shape (one still in carrying a charge and both Test buttons show the battery is OK), that left me wondering about the AC adapter. However, a voltmeter showed that the output was right on spec. I did manage to track down someone at work who had a brand new laptop which used the PA-10 adapter - and his laptop was charging just fine. Unfortunately, plugging the relatively brand new charger showed no change in the status of my laptop's ability to charge its battery.
That has me wondering strongly about a software issue. To the best of my recollection there was virtually no precipitating event that I can recall that would have impacted either my physical laptop (i.e. motherboard) or the AC adapter (no dropping or even movement for that matter). So, that has me wondering whether there was not some blip in the computer BIOS that has caused the BIOS system to not recognize the AC adapter - and therefore not allow the system to recharge the battery as a result. I've got to believe that is the only remaining logical source of the problem, and I'm guessing the problem lies somewhere with the battery charging algorithm. I'm half-surprised that if this is the problem, why hasn't Dell simply generated another BIOS release to address the issue?
Well, I'll do a little more research and then attempt to apprise everyone how the approach of flashing the BIOS does in terms of mitigating the problem. Beyond that, I was smart enough to invest in an extended warranty on the new base unit I purchased - so I have recourse to make a claim if the BIOS flash doesn't result in a fix.
After conducting a little further research and having a reasonably constructive conversation with someone at work, I become reasonably convinced that the source of my problem was indeed by BIOS. A co-worker indicated that he'd experienced a similar problem, and flashing the BIOS on this computer apparently corrected the problem.
So, I went the route of flashing my BIOS this morning, and while I can report that the process, while somewhat anxiety-provoking, is actually pretty easy and nearly foolproof. First, a quick tutorial on that for everyone's benefit. The most recent BIOS updates can be readily downloaded off the Dell website, under Drivers and Downloads. The "flashing" process is even more simple than the download. From Windows Explorer or using the Run command, you simply invoke the most recent update (I was shifting from the A12 update to the A16 release), and file self-executes. The application asks you if you want to upgrade your BIOS from ____ to ____, which you confirm by clicking OK (or Cancel). The application the informs you that it will close all existing applications, restart the computer and flash the BIOS - and then requests a final OK click, before proceeding. The rest was all transparent, with the BIOS taking just a little longer to process the first time during the Post-Test process. Windows XP launched and loaded as usual, and as far as I can tell, all the prior BIOS/CMOS settings were all carried over successfully during the update. So mostly, unless the flashing process were inadvertently interrupted by a power failure at a critical moment (which only takes a few seconds as far as I could tell), everything should proceed without any problems.
Now for the bad news. Flashing the BIOS apparently had no effect whatsoever on the failure in the battery charging algorithm (at least for me). I'll concede that I'm in a total funk about this whole affair - since the BIOS update was just about the last alternative that was open to me. So to recap, I took a leap and purchased a new (used) motherboard (with a faster processor), which didn't fix the problem - and it seems inconceivable that there was a electronic failure in both motherboards. I already know that both the batteries I own are fine. And I've got the benefit of having used a new AC adapter (it still even smells new), with no apparent impact. Now I've flashed the BIOS, so absent the residual effect of sunspots or the lingering EMP from the atmospheric nuclear tests of the 60's - I'm not sure what my other options are. I guess I do have recourse to the extended warranty that I purchased (www.squaretrade.com). I even gave some thought to reflashing the BIOS to the A12 update, although when I attempted to do that, the application warned that Dell did not recommend reverting to an earlier BIOS version. So, that's where I am for right now. Additional updates as they become available.
:^/ You mentioned two batteries. Have you tried swapping them around? If one is draining no matter which cavity it occupies, then it's the battery that has trouble, even if its indicator lights say otherwise.
On the other hand, if the battery in a given cavity drains no matter which battery is in there, then there's trouble with that cavity. Either the leads that send power there, or the controller that sends power to those leads.
First, thanks for the input and second, I'm very impressed with your 56,251 posting points. Wow.
Moving on . . . quite obviously I've alread applied the logic to try swapping around the two batteries. And no, neither of them will cause the laptop to charge either battery.
Good theory about the failure in the laptop battery bay, but keep in mind that the new base unit has it's own laptop battery bay, and the probably of both bays having some type of wiring failure is about as likely as Jimmy Hoffa turning up as the head cook at the Bob Evans restaurant up the street from me (okay, actually probably even less likely than the Jimmy Hoffa thing . . . ). And of course, since the battery that's still holding a charge is able to discharge and power the laptop, that also pokes another hole in the connector/lead theory.
I did read another (more plausible?) theory here recently, although I'm not sure I've got anyway on confirming it independently. The new theory is summarized at: http://www.laptop-junction.com/toast/content/dell-ac-power-adapter-id-chip-died
Since my last post I’ve had the opportunity to try three different AC adapter.
The first two, were universal adapters with the recommended power and voltage output. We had no luck. The last one we’ve tried was a genuine Dell adapter and “Bingo” the battery started to charge!!!
This confirms that we are dealing with a partly faulty AC adapter/charger. The computer’s Software and Hardware are fine. The Adapter will power the computer but not charge de battery.
For me, the problem is directly related to a questionable attempt from Dell prevent any other brand of chargers to be connected to and, charge their batteries. With all research and, in particular, the last information obtained by CGDobyns (i.e.: http://www.laptop-junction.com/toast/content/dell-ac-power-adapter-id-chip-died), it becomes obvious that many Dell costumers suffer a prejudice because of this poor design. What disturbs me even more is the fact that someone at Dell is definitely well aware of all this but they still continue to make people pay for parts or repairs that are useless. Would'nt it be time for another major recall?
Yes, magendron it is time for another major recall. They are content with having each consumer who faces this problem shell out money to figure it out. They have us buy a new battery, a new AC adapter, then a new motherboard when the issue is with the adapter and the ID chip.
Besides flashing the BIOS there's another thing everyone can try. Make sure the battery is in the laptop, unplug the AC adaptor, turn on the laptop. When you see the windows screen plug in the AC adaptor. This has helped some people get the AC adapter recodnized by the chip.
I am in a similiar situation with my Dell Latitude D820. The laptop is about 26 months old with another 10 months to go on the warranty. The motherboard was replaced once to solve the "unrecognized ac adapter problem" about 6 months ago. It didn't really solve anything. I have the original ac adapter plus two that I bought off ebay. Even after replacing the motherboard whether the ac adapter was recognized was hit or miss.
I hate automobile charging issues. There apparently is a catch-22, a faulty car alternator eventually messes up the battery where it will not hold a charge. You take the car in for service and you get sold a battery then 24 to 36 hours later, the battery is dead again because the altenator isn't charging.
I have always wondered whether the eBay ac adapters were really good adapters or junk.
I figure its a catch-22, buy the new Dell battery alone and run the risk that a faulty ac adapter might contribute to messing up a brand new battery.
Buy a new battery and a new ac adapter from Dell and see if everything works ok.
I am not impressed with Dell Support. As there are multiple batteries and multiple ac adapters, anyone have a good recommendation on which battery and which ac adapter to order?
i have two dell 1525 one is 10monrs old andone is four months old
and now have two chargers that will not even light up!
They started not recognising the powere source and then intermitently charging
then not charging at all but at least poweringthe machines
then not powering the machine and
then lighting up intermitenltly and
now not lightin up at all!
If you get an error about not recognizing your adaptor and needing 90W or greater its damage to the motherboard/Power supply Dallas ID chip.
Dell AC power adapter type cannot be determined
solution please connect a Dell 90W AC adapter or higher for best system
The problem happens frequently at Dell inspiron 1525,inspiron 6000, inspiron 600m, XPS m1330, latitude D600, D610 etc.
An expert's advise about "Dell AC power adapter type cannot be determined" Concerning this problem, I was also disapointed with the limitations imposed due to the PSID signal on my Dell Inspiron 1100 battery. So this is my solution.
OK the ID function is there for a reason, Dell designed it to help preserve the battery etc, but having emailed tech support with a request for a software override or some other solution to be able to switch off the PSID requirement, they either could or would not help. Just recommended I purchase (as people have said) more of their charging equipment etc. which I also think is a bit unreasonable.
They could easily update the Bios to allow user selection of this function.
Anyway, I ummmed and errred for a while, and then thought why not move the mysterious ID chip from the adapter to permanently inside the Laptop and disconnect the middle ID pin so the laptop ALWAYS thinks it has a correct adapter connected. Fine by me. And you can still adjust the power saving mode on screen anyway.
Now I don't recommend this to most people as its quite tricky. I'm an electronics engineer and have experience with circuits etc. and it took me a couple of days to do it with inspiron 1300 battery. Remember warranties probably go out of the window.
The first problem is to get your good Dell adapter apart. The case is glued together, and withought butchering it completely, takes some effort to get apart with blunt knives etc. Then unsolder the end of the metal shield nearest the output cord to get to the back of the circuit board.
The (Dallas semiconducter) chip is near the output wires, and fortunately its a pretty simple circuit, just three components: The 6 pin chip of which only pins 1 and 2 are used, a protection diode across them, and a tiny 100 Ohm resister.
Very carefully (you only have one chip) unsolder those three bits (actually its better to replace the resister with a standard 1/4W), making note of the connections. Solder fine wires to the chip pins (I used one strand of a cable). Then add the other two bits to the wires laptop battery. Wrap in a little PVC tape with just the two connections showing.
The Laptop unfortunately needs a lot of dismantling to get to the back of the power socket. I had to take of the inspiron 6400 battery, the keyboard, the screen, unclip the wires etc. take out the hard drive, unscrew all the screws in the back, and lift off the top cover. Needs care.
Cut the middle connection from the back of the power socket so you get a little stub left down to the motherboard. Then just solder the appropriate pins of your chip package to ground and the stub, so that it sits in a good position clear of any screws etc.
There are many small silver wires creating a jacket around the cable. After a few of them break from bending the cable during NORMAL usage there is a drop in voltage but still PLENTY to run and charge the computer. The whole thing about the CPU running at a slower speed is totally unnecessary and only there to further encourage a new purchase.
The wiring and AC adapter are DESIGNED to fail. I have never had one last longer than about a year. Oh, and if you try to get a non-Dell adapter (universal) it won't work either.My macbook 13 battery has not the same situation.
This is basically an engineered weakness causing many AC adapter orders and a borderline scam if you ask me.
There are many small silver wires creating a jacket around the cable. After a few of them break from bending the cable during NORMAL usage there is a drop in voltage but still PLENTY to run and charge the computer.
Start laptop as normally with AC supply, after complete booting of system, turn off AC plug, just press the cable (coming from adapter) towards the adapter (with normal force) and Turn On AC. Surprisingly its charging my laptop battery.
Put it all back together, and it works well. I now get no more notifications of unrecognised adapters and full speed operation whenever I want. :)
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